The choices we Christians make.
John McCain lost. Barack Obama won.
The political choice is made, and there are no do-overs. But the ethical question among believers in Christ remains: Are we justified in divorcing our faith from our politics?
Not that I’m partial, but I’ve always thought that women were the best. We juggle lots on our plate, and for the most part, juggle successfully. Our children are generally raised without becoming axe murderers. The community is a better place than when we got here because we helped with a bake sale for the library or the Brownies. A child’s life was changed in a small or big way because of a decision we helped to make on the PTA. We work full-time jobs and put up with more abuse or neglect than most men would stand. We think rationally and bring a fresh perspective to the mix. I think having a woman for a President would be a terrific idea — and would bring something to our government that we’ve never had before.
But even though I think so highly of my own gender, even though I know very much what it is like to get paid less for the same job while doing more work, it does not mean that men are incapable of governing us. It does not mean that I would vote for Hillary Clinton, or for Caroline Kennedy, or for Katie Couric just to put a woman in the Oval Office.
Not everyone cares as much as I do about politics. It’s overwhelming. It’s deceptive. One person is telling the truth, or maybe no one is. But as citizens with the responsibility of democracy on our shoulders, it’s honestly not that hard to find out these days how a candidate has voted previously and their current platform on the issues during their race. Maybe you are someone who took the issues seriously. But maybe you aren’t. Jedijson previously posted a link featuring interviews from people who claimed that they were.
Christians believe that what the Bible says is true. Murder is wrong, and therefore abortion is wrong. Abortion is not a political issue. It is a moral, ethical issue that spills over into the political arena because our country has decided to allow women to have abortions. It is an issue that is not going to go away, no matter how sick you are of hearing about it or how many years have passed since Roe vs. Wade. Where a candidate stands on this issue is an indicator of their intrinsic values — the glasses through which they will view and make decisions regarding every other issue concerning our nation: national security, foreign policy, domestic policy. The largest religion in our nation is Christianity, and every political candidate/party who stands for abortion stands against our beliefs. Every election we ever have.
So, you’re a Christian, and you vote pro-life. It’s always been important to you. Except on November 4, 2009. Why?
I have a lovely, Christian friend who is black who voted for Obama. Because he is black. The euphoria of having a black man in the White House will not erase centuries of slavery or carve out her own legacy as a mother and successful human being. It will not change history; it is no guarantee that her future will be better.
I know another Christian couple who voted for Obama because they thought if he got elected he would pay for their healthcare and they could afford higher car payments. With children in their home, they let their medical insurance go in anticipation.
Barbara Nicolosi made a staggering point at her blog, post-election, that really caught my attention:
“I can not, under any circumstances, ever support a candidate who thinks it is okay for a baby human to be chemically poisoned in its mother womb.
That is, nothing could ever prevail upon me to vote for a man who vehemently argued it was not a moral problem to have a late term child, delivered intentionally in breach, so that it’s head could be punctured with scissors and then have it’s brain sucked out so that it’s skull could be readily collapsed.
In other words, there is no possible scenario, under which I would vote for a man who shrugged that the separation of the humanity of unborn humans from their rights as persons was ABOVE HIS PAY GRADE!!!!! It is particularly mind-numbing that such a blithe dismissal comes from a man of color, whose own personhood was voided only a short hundred and fifty years ago by the same Supreme Court that has arbitrated this the greatest social evil of our lifetime.
It is proof of the complete triumph of the civil rights movement that the group that was once oppressed now gets to declare another group subhuman so as to nullify their civil rights.”
And the letter from A.V. in Berlin in response to her post:
“Dear Ms. Nicolosi,
Thank you for your bold statement! I am a German screenwriter and director, and your words cut into my heart, because I know what it means to live on soil that is still drenched with the blood of God’s people. We Germans are the way we are. because of the things we try (hard) not to remember, and still, we cannot escape them. There is no innocence, no end to responsibility, no cover-up through the shifting sands of history. The holocaust is as alive in our hearts, minds or collective unconscious, as it is in the memories of its few survivors who are still around. There is only forgiveness, and no escape for those who do not seek it.”
Then I found this video at Breitbart, and it also got my attention:
I guess since I have never considered a candidate who supported abortion I never really realized how many Christians were considering one. I’m appalled.
We are not justified in divorcing our faith from our politics, justified in ignoring the issues and putting other candidates aside, because one candidate has a particular color skin — nor for any other reason. How is it okay to turn off your Christianity in one way, for one day? It is not. Like I’ve told my friends, McCain was not my cup of tea, nor did I think he was the best thing for America. But John McCain (and the Republican Party platform) was not committed to upholding the most heinous crime of our time.
The Bible says that Satan is a deceiver. Willful or not, I’d call reversing personal priorities and convictions to vote for any politician who supports abortion about as deceived as it gets. Perhaps we can deceive ourselves, but we cannot deceive God. Our litmus test for every issue, every candidate, every election is the the His Word. Call me crazy, but the rancid justification the Baptist pastor in that video is spewing does not in any way measure up to God’s standards in the Bible. There is no excuse. But there is forgiveness.
Non-believers probably don’t understand why abortion is such a huge issue for us. And perhaps people who voted for Obama/the Democratic Party platform are not reading this blog. But we Christians cannot hide from the choices we have made and their consequences. We cannot hide our hearts from our Creator. What we can do is seek His face and change our ways.
But for how many precious innocent ones will it be too late?
Another observation/exit question: In past elections, the Protestants (at least it seemed to me) were the most outspoken about these issues. This year, it seems that the Catholics have been. Is it possible that the Protestant Church in America was handicapped in this election by guilt from past participation in slavery (in the South) or by high numbers of members who are black who voted their race rather than their faith? I am grateful to the Catholic Church for their stand for what is right. God will not forget your sacrifice in behalf of those who cannot defend themselves.
May God help us all.
This should be a vital discussion within our church and within the body of believers, I can’t fathom how this HUGE issue gets put aside in something so important as a presidential election. murder is murder is murder.
GREAT post!
May God help us all indeed.
Comment by C-Biz — November 18, 2008 @ 3:33 pm
I would rather not vote for someone that wishes to force his or her morals on the American people. I’m pro-life but that is my choice. Not yours, not my family’s, and it certainly shouldn’t be the American people’s.
If someone needs or wishes to have an abortion, they can take that up with God when the time comes. I will choose to raise the child I helped create.
It is not for us to make this choice for someone else.
Comment by Jacob — November 18, 2008 @ 5:20 pm
Can I be honest here? I’m tired of people using phrases like “force their morals on us.” What a copout, even by those claiming to be religious. The only people who dont want morals forced on them are people who know they are clearly living immorally. These same people scream “tolerance!” and demand that everyone accept their behavior, even when it clearly goes against the beliefs of others. If you want tolerance, exercise it on others. If you don’t want morals forced on you, then find morals of your own. In my experience, the biggest hypocrites are the ones pointing the fingers.
Comment by c-biz — November 18, 2008 @ 7:54 pm
I would not like someone to force morals on me so that I might have the freedom to choose right from wrong on my own. I can be agnostic and still decide it’s wrong for me to kill something I participated in creating.
I tolerate the idea that abortion is wrong. I don’t need Roe v. Wade to be reversed to tolerate it. If my wife or girlfriend or mother or sister or aunt or any other female I know wants to have an abortion, that’s a choice they have made and will have to live with. Just because I don’t agree with it is no reason for me to entirely remove the option for them.
My morals are my own and you morals are your own. It isn’t for you to decide whether my actions are right or wrong because then it’s you pointing the finger.
I am not immoral and not screaming for tolerance. I am simply asking for it.
Comment by Jacob — November 18, 2008 @ 9:37 pm
Jacob –
This post is directed at Christians, not agnostics. The point here is, if you hold the teachings of Christ to be true and claim that the Word of God is the standard you live by, a vote for someone who supports abortion — whether you support abortion or not — is an act of supporting abortion, murder, yourself.
Murder is against the law. That is a moral. It has been “forced” on the public. Would you like us to rescind that law? Why stop there? Most of our laws — don’t steal, don’t cheat on taxes, don’t beat your wife — those are all morals, too. Where do our laws come from if not from someone’s morals?
You’ve got free will. So exercise it if you want. You can break the law if you want. But there will be consequences — and there should be. Legalizing abortion gave our society a license to kill children — to “kill something [they] participated in creating” rather than protecting an innocent life that didn’t do anything to deserve death. “Consenting adults” should be grown-up enough to be responsible for their own actions. It’s not like they’re painting the neighbor’s poodle pink — they are taking a life.
Tolerance of opinions is one thing. Tolerance of murder — which you suggest — is another. It is for us to say what is right and what is wrong. It most certainly is. I suggest that you take a good look at the aborted babies on the previous post and then decide if tolerance is really what is important here. I cannot live with that kind of tolerance. Defending their little lives are worth whatever bad opinions the world wants to heap on me.
Comment by Numenorean — November 19, 2008 @ 9:34 am
[...] The choices we Christians make. [...]
Pingback by Video: How Obama Got Elected… Interviews With Obama Voters | Right Voices — November 19, 2008 @ 10:43 am
I supposed a vote for McCain would imply I support the death penalty - whether I support the death penalty or not - is also an act of supporting the death penalty, murder, myself. Witting “Jesus” down on the ballet is my only option to correct my apparent error. Even with that, my vote would have implicated my views concerning abortion are on the fence because there are no teachings from Jesus on this subject.
The problem of abortion has never had a clear solution. Even in the days of early Christianity, Thomas Aquinas taught that the soul enters the body 40 days after conception for males and 80 for females. Should I use this as my guideline? Or should I follow Pope Pius IX, who taught that abortion at any stage or pregnancy was cause for excommunication?
Even Church Doctrines differ on their stance. Which should we follow? Defending the idea the “solution” is beyond our understanding is worth being branded a supporter of murder.
Comment by Jacob — November 19, 2008 @ 1:01 pm
poor editing of my first sentence…
Comment by Jacob — November 19, 2008 @ 1:39 pm
Can I just point out that the death penalty is a consequence of our actions. The decisions we make in life all have consequences and while we can be forgiven, we’re not released from the consequences of those actions. The difference between the death penalty and abortion is that these children have done nothing deserving of death. It is one person killing another.
As far as the question of “when does life begin?” it seems so silly to put a day on it (day 40, or day 80). I agree that the argument within the church has been confusing, but you can’t look at those abortion pictures and tell me you think there’s no moral question beneath it. In my mind, there is a clear right and wrong here.
Comment by C-Biz — November 19, 2008 @ 3:29 pm
How is the death penalty not also murder? “You’ve murdered someone, so we will murder you back!” I agree that the reason for the death penalty is different than abortion but that doesn’t change what it is. If voting for Obama was wrong because of abortion how is voting for McCain the better choice? McCain voted favorably for the death penalty anytime the issue came up. Obama was on the fence about abortion. Was my best choice here to write Jesus in on the ballet?
Looking at the pictures doesn’t bring me to any moral decision but it does me to a sympathetic one. Which is probably how you feel about a murder on death row as apposed to an embryo in the womb and why you can justify it over abortion.
Comment by Jacob — November 19, 2008 @ 4:13 pm
Jacob,
The death penalty is vastly different from abortion. The death penalty is actually sanctioned by God Himself. Genesis 9:6 tells us that. It says “Whoso sheddeth man’s blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.” (Obviously, that’s the King James Version). Before anyone goes to Genesis 4:11-15 and says that God is against the death penalty, let me say this: that argument isn’t valid. Genesis 4:11-15 is talking specifically about Cain–that God marked him and said “no one shall kill this person because he killed his brother.” God isn’t talking about other people. God is talking about Cain himself. That what Cain did was severely wrong. By marking him, God is forcing Cain to live with his stupid mistake (and lying to God about it, too!), and is showing the entire world–wherever Cain travelled–who this person is and what he did. Think of it like the Scarlet Letter, if you’re confused over what I’m trying to say here. God set aside this person and said “don’t kill him.” BUT, later, God tells us that he condones the use of capital punishment. In fact, if you read Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy (the “law” books, if you will), there are in the neighborhood of 600 other crimes in which capital punishment is sanctioned and supported by God.
And before anyone goes off on how Jesus died for our sins, and murder is a sin, so we should forgive as He’s forgiven, etc., well… Yes, He did die for our sins. However, he did NOT die to alleviate the consequences of our actions. A murderer can still go to Heaven if he confesses his sins, accepts Jesus’ sacrifice and gift, and turns to a Godly life. But that does NOT mean that his consequence should be set aside.
If that were the case, then there would be no use for prisons in general. Thieves, child abusers, drug dealers, prostitutes, mob members, spouse abusers, etc. would all walk free. But they don’t. Why? Because they must pay for their actions. They made the choice to do what they did. Even if it’s a snap decision, they still made the choice. Sometimes, I can identify with why they made that choice. Sometimes I can’t. But irregardless (sorry, Nume, I’m still going to use that word even if it doesn’t exist), they still must pay for their crime. If they didn’t have to, there would be no justice. There must be laws that people follow, otherwise there would be utter chaos. Even the most primitive tribes have laws to ensure that the community can get along, can function, and can survive.
Abortion, however, is a completely separate matter. What did an unborn baby do to deserve to be slaughtered? Yes, the mother may have been raped, so she shouldn’t be held accountable for her rapist’s actions. But does that mean that her baby shouldn’t have the right to live?
And out of however many millions of abortions that have already taken place, how many of them are because the baby was simply “unwanted”? How many babies were conceived because their parents couldn’t keep their pants on? I understand the insatiable desire for sex whenever horomones are raging. But does that mean that a child has to pay the ultimate price because his parents have decided that they didn’t want to be saddled with a baby? It doesn’t matter if a girl’s father “will kill her and her boyfriend” when he finds out that she’s pregnant. It doesn’t matter if a husband will leave his wife when he finds out she’s cheated on him (and vice versa). It doesn’t matter if it’s “not the right time in our lives” or “I can’t afford to feed a child.” The baby has done nothing wrong. Should he die because of his parent’s mistake(s)? I’m fairly certain that the girl’s father won’t kill her and her boyfriend–there might be a couple who would, but in those cases, the daughter shouldn’t be around him to begin with. But all should have to deal with the fall-out of their actions. They need to take responsibility for what they’ve done. As my parents always told me: “If you can’t do the time, don’t do the crime.” Too bad we, as a society, have made it far easier for people to relieve themselves of their responsibilities.
I can guarantee you that there is absolutely zero “unwanted” babies in this country. How can I prove that? Because there are literally thousands–maybe tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands–of people who would do absolutely anything to parent a child–even if that child isn’t their flesh-and-blood biological child. My wife and I are just two of them. We adopted two little boys that–true, they aren’t our biological children–we love just as much as if they actually were our biological children. In fact, we were even able to get their birth certificates changed to appear that we are their biological parents. True, that had the added benefit of there not being a paper trail for their biological parents to follow, which will help protect the children from those people, but still…
We’re just two out of probably millions of people who would do absolutely anything to have a child of our own. We would be willing to even take a child with special needs–we already have two. And I know we’re not alone. I can’t tell you how many people we know who are willing to take a child with special needs just to have the chance to parent a child. Just to have the chance to love a child and to give that child a chance to grow up, be as successful as they can be, possibly even make this world a better place.
No, in my opinion, abortion is absolutely, positively, always the wrong choice. A child is not a choice. A child is a human being. A child should never have to suffer for the actions of their parent(s).
And before anyone says anything, no I don’t think nine months is too long for a woman to have to carry a child she doesn’t want. Even if she doesn’t want a baby or doesn’t love the baby or whatever, she should still take every effort and every opportunity to take care of herself and the baby. She can quickly and easily sign away rights to the child. There are thousands of people who are willing to sign up for the chance to be that baby’s parent(s). Why hurt a child just because you don’t love him? Why kill a child just because you don’t want him? That child can bring unimagined joy into the lives of another person.
Plus, you never know, that child may wind up a famous celebrity like Faith Hill, Melissa Gilbert, and Ray Liotta. They may wind up forming gigantic companies that people frequent every day, like Dave Thomas (started and owned Wendy’s before he passed away a couple years ago). They may wind up being a Representative or a Senator, like Illinois State Representative Sara Feigenholtz. They may even wind up President of the United States.
Every child needs to be given a chance to succeed.
Every child needs to be given a chance to live.
You never know what they’ll do, or how they’ll change the world.
Comment by jedijson — November 20, 2008 @ 11:50 am
Obama was not on the fence about abortion. It was one of the few things he actually took a stand for, voting FOUR times against affording babies their rights http://www.bornalivetruth.org/
Comment by C-Biz — November 20, 2008 @ 12:30 pm
I like you guys!
C-Biz I’ll check that out when I get home and also post my response Jedijson. I graduated with a degree in Religious Studious so there isn’t any need to baby me (or insult me if that’s what it was).
Comment by Jacob — November 20, 2008 @ 2:31 pm
I like you too Jacob.
so dont feel insulted or babied. My minor was religious studies, so I do realize there are religions and belief systems other than Christianity out there. We’re not trying to convert people on here, we just talk about the issues and raise questions of morality inside an increasingly God-less nation. I think discussions like these are vital, so I do like to hear what you have to say.
Its hard to tell by your name what your college major was
Comment by C-Biz — November 20, 2008 @ 2:52 pm
response to the voting record:
The way I read the bill and what Obama said about it makes me think he thought the bill was useless. He spoke against the bill “Because if these are children who are being born alive, I, at least have confidence that a doctor who is in that room is going to make sure that they’re looked after.” When it came up again after being changed he said it would probably be struck down as unconstitutional.
I don’t see that as voting for abortion. I see it as voting against a useless bill.
Jedijson yours is still coming!
Comment by Jacob — November 20, 2008 @ 6:59 pm
Just a thought. the option we have is not pro-life or pro-murder….the part that I feel some believers skip right over is that the vote is for Pro-CHOICE. This is not to say that I believe abortion is ok, but rather…if Christ has given us the opportunity to choose between right and wrong on an individual basis…why are we trying to force what we believe is right on others? Why are you not ok allowing Americans to choose. If we are to follow a Christ-like example..isn’t pro-choice with the prayer that as followers of Christ the testimony of his love will sway the population to eventually make the moral choice. Do we sometimes try to play God in this area?
Comment by Tony — November 21, 2008 @ 5:02 pm
in resonse to numenorean….
There is no such thing as voting for a candidate who we believe 100% on all moral issues, so to try to to say that guilt by association plays into this at all is not accurate. I have the responsibility to vote for the candidate I feel will best run the country…no to be my pastor or who is the best believer. I am not judged by God because of anyone’s sin but my own.
Comment by Tony — November 21, 2008 @ 5:09 pm
I will say this again. I AM ALSO AGAINST ABORTION. Stop trying to justify the reasons with me because you’re just wasting your time.
I came up with 46 different verse that directly stated who and why someone should be put to death in the Old Testament. Most of them overlap though. The Google page you found didn’t mention that most of those 613 laws didn’t actually include a punishment with in the verse. These laws include such topics as how to eat, how to worship, when to worship, etc.
Anyone with the tag Jedijson should know “only the Sith deal in absolutes.” Genesis 9:6 could potentially be used in any circumstance. The context of the verse doesn’t mention how or why blood was shed and could also include wars or attacks from other countries.
Is prison not a consequence? I didn’t say anything about not protecting society from harm. Laws don’t have to include the death penalty just because the Old Testament has specific laws for it.
Why weren’t all the slave traders killed? Why do we not eat kosher? Why aren’t all the children killed that curse their parents? Why don’t we kill people who work on Sunday? Why don’t we cancel all debt every seven years? Why don’t we celebrate any of the feasts? Why don’t we kill the gay community? Why don’t we kill anyone that has sex with animals? Is it only the murders and the rapists? And we justify it with a few verses from the Old Testament?
What should I do with all those other laws we don’t use?
Your entire argument against abortion is the same one Catholics use to keep it’s congregation from wearing condoms. (I wonder how many less abortions would take place if that changed.) Can you list one verse that specifically talks about abortion? I know a few that mention the sanctity of life but not abortion. I guess God left that one up to us. As you said, it’s your “opinion” abortion is the wrong choice.
Are we in the business of guessing what God wants?
Back to the point of the article. If I voted for someone that is an avid hockey fan, that makes me a hockey fan by default? And if I agreed that a vote for Obama is a vote for abortion, then why is not true on the opposite end?
Comment by Jacob — November 21, 2008 @ 5:10 pm
I understand the point you are trying to make in your piece. However, I think you are making a huge mistake. I live in Africa where we are as pro life as they come. Every nation has outlawed abortion etc just as you wish your country. However, day after day, I hear of many young girls who die because of unsafe abortions. But that is not a case for keeping abortion legal. I believe it is intrinsically wrong. But if after so long, Roe V Wade has been promised but not delivered even when republicans had the chance to but the very man you choose to vote for Mc Cain scuttled it (gang of 14), would you not consider another route to God’s Will. If sin cannot be legislated because it is popular, it is our responsibility as christians to still preach the love of christ. I read the minority judgement for Roe V wade that seeks to make abortion illegal and I was disspaointed that there was no provision for rehabilitation of young women who seek to chose this crime agianst the unborn. We must seek first to make people understand this evil as we do and stop making it another political issue that is aligned with a particular party. I think that the rights of the unborn can get a victory as resounding as that for marriage around the country if only we are willing to avoid being gamed by republicans who use us as political tools for or against abortion and ignore us when they get power. We should aim at building a greater coalition for life, so that it is fashionable to say “I am pro life”. Not compromising is not in the interest of the unborn. We only make people’s resolve to murder them stronger. We have a legitimate moral case to make not a political one- we must make being pro-life not a political issue but a moral one just as marriage is. I have prayed about this and I think that American Christians have so much so lost God’s spirit that they fail to pray about these issues. They simply assume what God wants. That they willingly accept that murder of God’s people in Iraq, Afghanistan and the people of Africa is God’s will and the birth of American babies is not. I am personally disspaointed in Pastor Hagee. My whole congregation prayed in the spirit for him when he endorsed Mc Cain. This is because we know tha Mc Cain is a sinful man. He dissapointed God by divorcing his first wife and being a sexually promiscuos rascal through life. Obama may not be much better but at least he shows promise by living a nominally christian life and keeping his wife. It does not make him the candidate to vote for. God told us that we must never compromise our values. Christians have turned to politics in defiance of God’s word. If a man’s life does not match God’s will for us, we are to pray until we receive god’s guidiance or not vote at all. Christians are not republicans– they are not owned by any party. Their entire life is dictated by God and not any party. The more we make the Republican party our God, the worse for us.
Comment by Sam — November 25, 2008 @ 4:12 am
To Jacob: I dont see voting 4 times against a bill as simply voting against a useless bill. He was afraid that the bill would in some way hinder a woman’s right to choose- even going as far as saying that NOT killing a baby after a failed abortion makes the woman second-guess her original decision- and THAT he is against. That line of reasoning is atrocious to me. To say he is not pro-abortion is just silly. He is very much for abortion.
To Sam: Umm, yes. We’re all sinful. You can’t vote for a perfect candidate because you can’t vote for Jesus. That doesn’t mean that casting your vote isnt enabling certain things like abortion to happen. If you believe that abortions are morally wrong, and you elect a candidate who has promised to enable abortions, why is that not a bad moral decision? McCain isn’t enabling people to be “sexually promiscuous rascals.” He’s not signing bills into law that mandate affairs. And it’s also hard to say that Obama has lived a “nominally Christian life” just because of what you’ve seen in the obviously biased media who has deemed him a god. You dont know what his life is really like.
And why is marriage and abortion NOT a political issue? I dont understand. It’s a political issue to pro-choicers and homosexual rights activists. Do we just step aside and let our nation become something we don’t want just because Jesus allowed us free will? Poor excuse if you ask me. I will fight for my rights to raise my children in a world where our religion isnt marginalized and ridiculed.
But clearly I am not only fighting against those who wish to condemn Christianity, I am also fighting against other Christians who have chosen the wide road instead of the narrow.
Comment by c-biz — November 25, 2008 @ 10:03 am
Jacob,
The Sith aren’t the only ones who deal in absolutes. God does, too. Right is right, and wrong is wrong. Period. While society may see people’s lifestyles as fine, their choices as fine, etc., God doesn’t see them that way.
You said:
Glad to know you got your degree in religion, so what I’m about to say isn’t really for your benefit, but for anyone else’s, as you’ll already know this.
Many people do still follow some of those rules. Jews still celebrate the feasts.
The Sabbath Day thing is a bone of contention with me. Technically, SATURDAY is the Sabbath, not Sunday. Constantine changed the Sabbath Day from Saturday to Sunday in early 300 AD in his effort to force everyone to just get along. True, he became a Christian, but not until he was on his deathbed. Before then, he was a pagan who worshipped Tamuz, the sun god, which is how Sunday got its name. I could go into a huge dissertation here about Christian symbolism and how it’s been distorted, but I won’t. My point is that Saturday is still the Sabbath. It’s just that people have warped it to their own ends, and made Sunday the Sabbath. I hope and pray that God will set this right during the Millennial Reign and thereafter.
Oh, and, yes, I do still eat Kosher. Most of the time. I say “most” because the rule about “not boiling a calf in his mother’s milk” being translated to “you don’t eat cheese on your burgers” is a stretch, IMO. And regardless of what Sam’s Club says, there’s no possible way that pork hot dogs can be Kosher.
As for your other questions, well, we are supposed to follow the laws of the land. Children who curse their parents aren’t killed, because society doesn’t allow it (and I wouldn’t, either). Slave traders aren’t killed, even though it wouldn’t hurt my feelings if they were. The very idea of slavery just galls me to no end.
The idea of cancelling all debt every seven years is a matter of perspective–Jesus cancelled our debt of sin once and for all, so we no longer have to sacrifice perfect animals.
As far as financial debt? Well, for some people, it IS cancelled after seven years. If you were to go into a courtroom and declare bankruptcy, it stays on your record for seven years. After that, it’s null and void, and can no longer be held against you.
And the list goes on…
But the point of this is about abortion. Regardless of how the nation feels about it, we still say it’s wrong to do this. I’m not saying we need to punish those women who have had them–they need our support now more than ever, as they struggle with the guilt that they’ve killed their unborn baby. And I’m not talking about “it’s OK, you did the right thing!” type of support. I’m talking about being a shoulder to cry on, to mourn with them, etc. I’m not condemning women for having an abortion.
What I’m condemning is the act itself, and the fact that this is the first option presented to women across America. It’s deplorable to me that Planned Parenthood gets money from the government to kill thousands of babies each year. It’s galling to me that, when a woman goes in and says she’s pregnant and doesn’t want the baby, they go straight to abortion. No discussion about adoption. No questioning if this is really the right answer. Heck, they can’t even notify her parents (if she’s still a minor) in many places! How disrespectful!
And before anyone says “that’s not how they do it,” yes, it is how they do it. Someone very, very close to me had an abortion a few years ago. She went to a Planned Parenthood here in OKC, and they almost forced her into the abortion. She wasn’t sure if it was the right decision at the time, but the picture they painted for her was very, very bleak, and that abortion was her only viable alternative. She now regrets the decision, and every year on the anniversary of the abortion, we talk. Time has yet to heal that wound in her, so she has to rely on the goodness and faithfulness and forgiveness of God.
Sam (above) hit the nail on the head when he said that “American Christians have so much so lost God’s Spirit that they fail to pray about these issues. They simply assume what God wants.”
How true that is! How many people in America–and even in the world–assume what God wants, so impose that on everyone else?
I’m not saying that it’s right or it’s OK to impose my beliefs on people. God gave us this thing called “free will” so that we can choose to do what we want to do: we can choose God, or we can choose evil. It’s up to us.
God has put us on this earth with a brain to think, eyes to see, ears to hear, etc., so that we can experience life. He’s made us in His image. He loevs us no matter how much we sin. No matter what we do, He still loves us, much like we parents love our children. It doesn’t matter what the Jeffrey Dahmers of the world have done, I’ll bet you anything that their parents still love them. How could they not? Do they need to be punished for what they did? Yes. And so it is with God. He still loves us unconditionally, no matter what we have done. Fortunately, He’s offered us the gift of forgiveness, but it’s up to us to take it. If we refuse to do so, well, consequences are consequences, and we’ll have to deal with them.
Bottom line, we may not agree with all the laws that are on the books. We may even work to overturn those laws. But until that happens, we are still bound by them. I cannot stand the abortion law, and definitely want to see it overturned. I’ll exercise my right to freedom of speech to emplore people to start thinking about what it is that they are doing. BUT, right now, because it’s legal to have an abortion, I will not prevent a woman from doing it. I may try to get her to see reason and reality, but I will not prevent her from doing it. That’s a decision that she’ll have to live with, no matter which way she’ll go.
No, there’s no specific verse that deal with the term “abortion.” However, there is a verse that I believe deals with all defenseless people. Matthew 25:40 says “The King will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.” It’s kind of an open-ended statement there. He does go on to tell those on his left to get away from Him, because they didn’t feed Him when He was hungry, clothe Him when He was naked, etc. If any verse in the Bible talks about abortion, I would say that that’s it. “I was unborn, and you aborted me” fits the tone, even though I will not presume to add that to what He has already said.
No, I don’t 100%, absolutely, positively, unquestioningly know what God thinks about abortion. But, I believe that I know. Why? Because I have a relationship with Him.
It’s like my marriage. I know my wife. I’ve known her for twenty years (it’s really been that long? Doesn’t feel like it). I don’t always know what’s going on in her head. BUT, because I have a good, solid relationship with her, I can give you an answer to any question you might pose to her, and be fairly accurate–even without asking her. I know how she feels about things, because I know her.
While my thoughts are NOT God’s thoughts, and my plans are not His, that doesn’t change the fact that I know God. Our relationship is something I work on every day of my life. We struggle (or, rather, I struggle against Him) sometimes. I argue with Him. I may even rebel against Him. BUT, I will not be moved whenever it comes to my relationship with Him. I have full confidence in Him and whatever He has planned–even though I may not agree or even LIKE it.
And that’s how I know how He feels about things. He wants to react in love to everyone, which is how I strive to do it. I correct my children in love. I deal with people in love. I may get angry, I may yell, I may scream, etc., but it doesn’t change the fact that I still do everything I can to deal with people in love.
If anyone on the planet would have the perfect excuse to have an abortion, it would have been Mary. She was unmarried. She was a teenager. And, on top of everything else, she was pregnant with the child that did not belong to the man she was betrothed to. She brought ultimate shame upon her family, causing all kinds of heartache and pain. Yet, she still persevered, and look where it’s gotten us? She gave birth to Yeshua–Jesus–who is God’s own Son.
While no other baby will ever be Messiah, it doesn’t change the fact that we don’t know what that child will grow up and become. He could find the cure for cancer. She could teach the next Supreme Court Judge. He could be an axe murderer. She could be the one who finds the cure for air pollution. We don’t know what each child will become. Good or evil, we don’t know. But the child still needs the chance to live.
And as far as you being a hockey fan by default because you voted for someone? No. It doesn’t. However, I seriously doubt a President will get involved in hockey rules. Hockey rules only affect people involved with hockey.
Abortion, however, affects us all. It is a rule that we all must abide by. It is a national thing that the President gets to help make the ultimate decision on. It’s a “big issue.”
Who you vote for reflects your ideas on those issues. If the person you’ve voted for supports abortion, then, by default, you, too, must support abortion. If the person you’ve voted for supports the disarmament of America, then you, too, support that idea. If the person you’ve voted for supports gay marriage, well, then, you support gay marriage, too.
This wasn’t an easy vote for me. I don’t agree with many policies of John McCain–specifically open borders, and a few others. BUT, I would have rather seen him in the White House than B. Obama, because at least McCain reflected far more of my beliefs than Obama does. It was the lesser of two evils for me, and I went with someone whom I agreed with more. To be honest, Sarah Palin reflects more of my beliefs than any other candidate since Reagan. While I may not agree with her 100%, at least I agree with her 98% of the time. Unlike Obama, who I only agree with about 3% of the time.
Who you’re voting for reflects what policies you support.
Comment by jedijson — November 25, 2008 @ 10:26 am
“It was the lesser of two evils for me, and I went with someone whom I agreed with more.”
I think this explains my entire point. Christian’s can still follow the teachings of Jesus and abstain from having an abortion even if they are legal.
Personally, I would much rather see the effort put into abstinence (or safe sex) teachings for teens and young adults in schools and colleges. “Close to half of all pregnancies in the U.S. are unintended, and 40% of those end in abortion.” (NYTimes - Why Have Abortion Rates Fallen?)
In Germany and Belgium, (two lowest abortion rates in Europe) they “rely on contraception to maintain low fertility. In both countries, abortion services are provided without charge to the woman, and abortion is legal under broad conditions.” (The Incidence of Abortion Worldwide - guttmacher.org) Over 40% of the population in both countries is either atheist or agnostic. Yet we have twice the abortion rates they do.
“The choice we Christians make” is our own. It doesn’t belong to who we vote for.
I apologize my responses aren’t as long or thought out :(. And if it seems that I am a Christian (because I’m sure it does in some way) I am not, but I will still keep the child I helped create over anything else.
Comment by Jacob — November 26, 2008 @ 12:37 pm